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Please Read GBRC Online Racing Rules

Discussion in 'GBRC Welcome' started by bnic11, Dec 31, 2015.

  1. Lunchbox

    Lunchbox GBRC Founder
    Aministrator Club GBRC

    Happy new year everyone i hope you all had a good break,

    I thought it would be appropriate to re-evaluate the rules above concerning track boundaries and accidental incidents. Not spoke to Bruce about this but i think we could all contribute to reaching a decision on them.

    How we reach a decision i don't know maybe come up with a vote?

    So highlighted in the last qualifier, is the curbs part of the track?

    My opinion is that they are, with off track set to real you do run the risk of spinning out on grass. The down side is that not all curbed areas have grass around them.
    I will do some tests on certain tracks IE Interlagos and Nürburgring to see how far i can push the limits before the time penalty kicks in. So heavy time penalties might be an option.

    The other issue is if you accidentally cause someone to crass, leave the track etc
    my proposal is continue racing but give yourself a drive through penalty by going into the pits. Its not always safe or feasible to let someone past when there is a full lobby of drivers.

    I would appreciate any feed back, comments, suggestions.
    Motorhead_51 likes this.
  2. cokebloke

    Club GBRC Senior Member

    I personally feel the answer to track boundaries should be heavy time penalties as it makes it self regulating cant be disputed.

    As for incidents not sure on that one, regular club members are good and I totally trust you all but we do have new people join up time to time, I'm not talking about anyone in particular I must add but if somebody does accidentally knock somebody off I like the fact I can see they waited where if they pulled into the pits and the race had a compulsory pit stop until we knew we can trust that driver they could take advantage and refuel or take on tyres. What I'm trying to say is if they don't wait its easy to see and say at the time or report that driver and bring it to that drivers attention. I cant think of an alternative at the moment but we have some good brains in the club.
    #22 cokebloke, Jan 2, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
  3. Motorhead_51

    Club GBRC Senior Member

    Hey all, a wonderful New Year it was! Time well spent with the family and tuning up my home.... There has been a lack of both due to a big push at work this fall.

    What are track limits and racing surface?

    It is my opinion that tarmac and curbing are both considered track limits. I have watched many disciplines of racing from around the real world and different online leagues and other competitive races. this seems to be the norm.

    When have you breached these limits?

    Again, IMO, I think it is sufficient to have two tires on the racing surface at all times.

    These two questions MUST be answered. Most importantly for the qualifier. They are relevant in the races as well, but only if you advance your position. If you have you would be expected to give back the position. A driver unwilling to give back the position could have a point deduction at the end of the weekends competition.

    Of course, this would mean some policing:mad: This could be a timely expense for someone. For this reason, I like the idea of a Heavy time penalty. I have not tested penalties other than getting them at random times. I can say that when I get a penalty I have been off-track.

    About the contact.

    As Nigel said, the cleanest racing I have had is with this club. Though we have had our rougher races, it’s still quite respectable. It is the passing drivers responsibility to make a clean pass. If there is contact and either of the cars spin, the passing car should consider it his fault and succeed position or wait for the other driver to come back on track ahead of him.
    people will say it was my line and what not. It’s hard to see left & right. We all can see one thing(no matter the view we race from), that is our front bumpers. Therefore , a pass isn’t a pass until front bumpers are even. I know it’s not always that easy. But if I had to right it down for rules & regulations, it would be along those lines.

    As far as new members joining. These rules should be highlighted in the op of every single event casuall or not. As mundane as it sounds, nobody can say I didn’t know.

    Good idea Jason to start an open conversation. You all should make your opinions known. This really would work best for us if we all had some ideas!

    I wonder what this guy would think?
    Lunchbox and cokebloke like this.
  4. Zebaldus

    Club GBRC Senior Member

    The best way is "Heavy time penalty" and two tires on the track at all time and wait if you knock somebody off the track.
    Fido996 likes this.
  5. Fido996

    Club GBRC Senior Member

    For me it has always been straight forward. Theres a white line on either side of any track denoting the boundary ( track limits ). 95% of the time this is sufficient, but theres always the exception. Interlagos sings to mind here. Theres areas here where the curbing can quite comfortably take an entire cars width. This to me is beyond track limits as you are effectively outside the white lines. I guess what I'm saying is a minimum of 2 wheels inside the white lines at all times.

    As for the heavy time penalties, great for the guy who's pushing a little too hard and tries to take too much of a corner away. Not so great for the guy who's just been nerfed wide at a chicane and has nowhere else to go due to contact. Not only has he lost a place due to someone else's enthusiasm but then gets penalised as well! This may need a little testing to see which penalty system, if any, works well enough.

    I noticed the other day as well that in the Daily Sport events when you get the run down of results at the end, it shows red dots beside any player that have incurred any sort of penalty. Does this work with the normal lobbies?
  6. carlos77744

    Club GBRC Senior Member

    I agree with your car should be within the white line you can still take plenty of kurb but as in interlargos your not inventing a new track funny in other games the car gets upset with contact with the kurbs so taking the micky is not viable .
    As for penalty s we had many a lengthy discussin about poor drivers but note I have recently dabbled with another group of racers who claim to be the cleanest racers out there out of 3 races only one was not carnage so our racing standard are spot on
    Only thing possibly is we need to state rules in the race post if entrants don't comply then time penalty will be given .
    Fido996 likes this.
  7. bnic11

    Aministrator Club GBRC

    The first post of this thread is a brief version of our racing rules. This was produced because the older rules were very lengthy & I doubt if any members had read all of it. Think we need to keep things simple and straight forward, not to put newer members off with too many rules etc.

    Track limits :
    As far a I see it, there are 2 options -

    Option 1. Track = Tarmac & Kerbs (current rule)

    This is the same as GTP, with two wheels on track at all times. Anything beyond is not track, e.g. grass, paving, etc.

    Option 2. Track = Tarmac only
    Two wheels must remain on the tarmac at all times.

    The problem is this can be track specific - tracks sometimes have no kerbs, or very wide paving, or no white lines. Tracks such as the Nurburgring, Interlagos, Dragon Trial all have areas which have questionable track limits. We need to identify these areas and make a rule on specific tracks. For example, Dragon Trial has a fantastic 'bus stop' type chicane near the end of the lap, where virtually everyone takes flat out, over the kerbs and onto the paving - most of the time off track limits. Do we put a stop to this, or should it be allowed as being a track specific rule.

    I'll go with what everyone wants, but I always think that having Option 1 (tarmac & kerbs) means that on some tracks which have kerbs then grass, most of the car could be on the grass so long as 2 wheels are on the kerb ! I've found that some cars dont ride kerbs very well (particular MR) and tend to get pulled off track, so again Option 1 could cause accidents.

    Penalties for exceeding track limits :
    In a Qualifier - Admin can review track limits from replays
    In Qualifying for a Race - Hopefully members should know if they have exceeded limits and should back out of the lap.
    In a Race - if you see anyone continually exceeding track limits they should be reported to Admin
    The odd one or two times is ok, but continually during a race needs reporting.
    Race Admin can use the three strike penalty system if required. (see first post)

    Other Rules Discussed :
    We maybe need to add more detail to our most important racing rule :

    Avoid contact with other cars if possible. If you make contact with another car & either make them lose control / leave the track / spin, you must wait until they regain their place in front of you.

    I think we should add that you must wait as soon as possible in a safe place off the racing line, until they regain their place in front of you.

    Sorry about my lengthy ramblings..........what do you think lads ?
  8. ejd_eire

    Club GBRC Senior Member

    i like the suggestion of the white line being the track limit and 2 wheels must be inside. Theres plenty of tracks where taking the entire car across the white line and (entire car on Kerb), i dont think that is acceptable, using half the car on thr kerbing is normal,
  9. cokebloke

    Club GBRC Senior Member

    I like the current track limit rules or option one in your post Bruce, I don’t think any club members abuse that.

    As for club qualifying I wouldn’t mind seeing penalties on but only for club qualifying not race qualifying but I also wonder with a new member who we don’t know would they turn that penalty system on seeing the replay is the only way to judge their driving if there were any doubts

    Waiting in a safe place off the racing line is a good amendment

    Now we have more members and getting other drivers interested in joining us I think it’s brilliant your being pro active Bruce and putting it out for discussion.....thanks
  10. bnic11

    Aministrator Club GBRC

    Thanks for your input Nigel. With track limits, its only certain tracks that can be a problem & its probably up to the organiser to highlight to members potential places where cars run wide & over the kerbs

    Overall I think we have to strike a balance between the number of rules & the time spent by Race Admin implementing them. I can remember the Race Admin team having to go through a 30min Race Replay, actually counting the number of times a driver exceeded track limits.
  11. cokebloke

    Club GBRC Senior Member

    I totally agree Bruce nobody wants to spend their precious time going over replays etc it’s not fair on anybody. You are right it is a balance and it’s not a problem in my mind with our regular members I feel it’s more to guide new members but if any new member joined it wouldn’t take long to see those that want to get it right and those that want to win at all costs as the overall behaviour would be the telling sign.
  12. ejd_eire

    Club GBRC Senior Member

    Real tracks evolve, corners get cut until they put a sausage kerb or higher more aggressive kerb in, i don't think traveling on grass is right. If reviewing replays is an issue I volunteer to review each race I partake in.

    I think tarmac is the track, and 2 wheels must be on that. It's hard to police, lucky were all have the same focus. I never intended to break that rule. On dragons trail your fastest lap is a bit false if you've plough the chicane
    Lunchbox and cokebloke like this.
  13. Lunchbox

    Lunchbox GBRC Founder
    Aministrator Club GBRC

    Great comments guys, i have tested Interlagos and what gt sport deems the track is curbs and not the white line. This is for all corner apex's i ran with two wheels on curb and two off the track/curb and no penalty. soon as i ran with four wheels off the curb i got a time penalty. I also tested if the penalty information was captured in a fast lap replay and unfortunately it doesn't (maybe this could be another one for EJ to tweet to get implemented ;))

    If we run qualifying as tarmac as the boundary you will be constantly checking your replays for driving errors especially if we are going to start a monthly TT.
    Also say you found time to sit down and run a qualifying session ready for posting on the forum and do 30 laps, 2 are very fast laps, the fastest was dirty as per club rules and the second fastest lap was clean per club rules but you saved the best lap replay according to the games track limits. Then only to check to find you best lap broke the rules of the club that's a lot of time to waste.

    Food for thought
    Motorhead_51, cokebloke and bnic11 like this.
  14. bnic11

    Aministrator Club GBRC

    Here's some picture to show graphically what the current GBRC Track limits are :

    OPTION 1 shows the car with two wheels on tarmac & kerbs as track
    OPTION 2 show the car with two wheels on just tarmac as track

    I've picked Brands Hatch in the first case which shows more traditional kerbs, Dragon Trail is the second example which has massive kerbs.

    Hope this helps to show how varied tracks can be and how far off track you can go but still be on the kerbs.
    Lunchbox likes this.
  15. ejd_eire

    Club GBRC Senior Member

    It is a pickle and I have to admit you guys are right, realistically the white line isn't the track limit, it would be a nightmare to keep an eye on, that's not even including the fastest lap replay difficulties. Option 2 looks better and is probably closer to reality but Option 1 is going to be the norm. I'm happy to go along with anything ye lads decide, I don't even mind if you introduce the 10 commandments of GTArena all punishable by death and race ban.
    • Thou shall not exceed the track limits
    • Thou shall not drive on after making contact with fellow racer
    • Tho shall not obstruct someone on a qualy lap
    • Thou shall not make arse jokes in the forum
    • .......

    I have a backlog of tweets tbh.....optional stricter track boundary time penalties, a min weight filter for the lobby, more HUD options (as in less info but keeping the essentials) and a way to remove the bloody names above cars in race..... I only got Kaz on my Twitter the other day in prep, Dev team, their boss Kaz and maybe Sony will be tweeted, wonder who else to tag, maybe Conner McGreggor, he might sort it out with a few slaps.
    Motorhead_51, cokebloke and Lunchbox like this.
  16. cokebloke

    Club GBRC Senior Member

    Great work Bruce and great comments ej ....but have to say the last commandment wouldn't be fair to Jim :D
    • Thou shall not exceed the track limits
    • Thou shall not drive on after making contact with fellow racer
    • Tho shall not obstruct someone on a qualy lap
    • Thou shall not make arse jokes in the forum
    • .......
  17. Why am I always the butt of your jokes Nige...?
  18. Interesting and valid points for both options on the track limits.
    With F1 being the only motorsport I've really had the time to watch with any sort of dedication, you could look at the rules there and say it depends what mood the race officials are in on the morning of the start of the race weekend.
    Look at Monza, exit of the ascari chicane (turn 10), cars are allowed to run as wide as they pretty much like, yet I think it was Hungary this year where (possibly turn 4) it was very strict about staying in the white lines.
    Does this mean we pick and choose limits between different tracks?
    You can see by Bruce's examples above that the line taken at Brands won't make a great deal of difference to lap time, yet the dragon trail chicane will offer a meaty chunk of time.
    Personally I've always favoured GT Planets WRS rules (equal to our 'option 1'), but they would clarify each selected track if there were any 'grey areas'.
    I don't mind sitting down for an evening and going through each track corner by corner taking pictures of option 1 limits and option 2 limits, if someone wanted to file them somehow into an attatchment, then the event organiser can choose which rules they want the event to follow, and attatch the appropriate file(s) to the event listing.
    Raliegh Chopper.
    Comfort Hards.
    Dragon trail 6,500 laps no pitstops allowed.
    Track limit rule option 1 (insert file here for pictures).

    *same would apply for TT's
    bnic11 and cokebloke like this.
  19. But you might have to wait a while for me to have a free evening to do it!!
  20. cokebloke

    Club GBRC Senior Member

    @Jimantonic'82 So so sorry Jim we always have had a banter and a laugh on the forum in the past, I always felt your online comments were of a similar humour to mine, I think your a good guy, respect you and would never want to offend you and would be disappointed and upset with myself if I thought any jokey comments offended you or any club member so please accept my apologies and it will stop, especially as it's normally me that comes out with the arse jokes probably to cover up my own problems so once again sorry Jim.
    #40 cokebloke, Jan 4, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018

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